113.203.190.165 (talk) 02:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Why did popular culture assume, for example, that Hurrem was participant in the executions of Ibrahim Pasha and Mustafa? Life in a Sultans harem was not glamorous and it certainly wasnt about love. Uzunarl, smail Hakk; Karal, Enver Ziya (1975). Thanks to her intelligence, she acted as Suleiman's chief adviser on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign policy and international politics. Because none of these people neither Ottomans nor foreign visitors were permitted into the inner circle of the imperial harem, which was surrounded by multiple walls, they largely relied on the testimony of the servants or courtiers or on the popular gossip circulating around Istanbul. [22] Nurbanu died in December 1583. The name Roxalane derives from Roksolanes, which was the generic term used by the Ottomans to describe girls from Podolia and Galicia who were taken in slave raids. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Unless we have another source which gives us the sketch of positions of Sultan's consorts in Harem, the WEB SITE can be cited, because there is no mentioning of consort's positions and their status in their master's harem in Leslie's book. Since the empire lacked, until the reign of Ahmed I (16031617), any formal means of nominating a successor, successions usually involved the death of competing princes in order to avert civil unrest and rebellions. Retrieverlove (talk) 08:43, 28 December 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], "[] and the Sultan's favorite or chief consorts changed to Sultan []. In the times of Suleyman, not everyone could be addressed that way. It was not because Hafsa Sultan was firmly against this unification, but because it was not allowed for a concubine to rise above the status of the Valide Sultan (Queen Mother). If you must, then make the title read as "Mahidevran" only. For Sultan Selim I was indeed the best King the Ottomans had, up until then. Webmahidevran. [41], Hurrem is known to have been very generous to the poor. He appointed to govern Konya instead of Mustafa. And I have an interesting video for the newer.Today I want to tell you about Mahidevran Sultan, who she really is.Mahidevran Sultan is the mother of Shehzade Mustafa. "[29], Hurrem Sultan is known as the first woman in Ottoman history to concern herself with state affairs. Who were her parents? Letempsviendra (talk) 19:30, 16 December 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply], Phso 2 You are saying that Leslie P. Pierce told n his book that for the creation of the title Haseki Sultan for Hurrem all the other consorts carried an alternative title Hatun.But my freind you should also know that,Leslie P. Peirce also said that during 16th century(Suleiman's reign) the title Hatun for a valide,princesses and Sultan's consorts were changed by Sultan(it's called Sultana in the harem to distinguish between male and female). Later, Hurrem became the first woman to remain in the sultan's court for the duration of her life. [6] 113.203.150.188 (talk) 02:19, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Popular culture and Ottoman court etiquette are two different things. Above all, her being mother of heir apparent is not a popular culture but a fact. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her first son (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. It is clear by your statement that you're being subjective about this: you're looking for an excuse rather than solid facts to call Mahidevran a sultana. In fact, Suleiman was afraid of his eldest sons power. Where she came from? Thank you From Khondoker Jobair. For Ukrainian language novels, see Osyp Nazaruk (1930) (English translation is available). Not interested? [11], Aside from her political concerns, Hurrem engaged in several major works of public buildings, from Makkah to Jerusalem (Al-Quds), perhaps modelling her charitable foundations in part after the caliph Harun al-Rashid's consort Zubaida. While she was serving as the mother to heir apparent she was considered a Sultan's family member (Ottoman court etiquette), hence the title. And it's not "my" idea of history, I'm respecting the facts; if anyone's fabricating their own fantasy is you with your admitted speculations and possibilities.. Don't even start to talk about facts when the come from a theatre play. Subscribe to our free weekly newsletter and stay up to date on History of Royal Women's articles! An extra piece of information, in 15th century, the Tatars, Caucasians, Albanians, and Russians were all considered part of ""Circassia"". Museum of Turkish and Islamic Arts, The Hagia Sophia Hurrem Sultan Bathhouse built in 1556, Haseki Sultan of Suleiman the Magnificent, Content in this edit is translated from the existing Turkish Wikipedia article at. She quotes the sultan as saying, "with the old king we were like brothers, and if it pleases the All-Merciful God, with this king we will be as father and son." Many books (you may easily google) have also referred to this website for references. I began this website in 2013 because I wanted to share these women's amazing stories. Mahidevran could hardly have predicted Hurrem Sultans success. Her supposed rivals relationship with Suleiman (r. 15201566) was unprecedented, a Scholars thus agree that European artists created a visual identity for Ottoman women that was largely imagined. If "Haseki Sultan" was created solely for Hurrem when they legally married, breaking a 200 hundred tradition of not marrying, why should anyone assume that other concubines of the sultan would start using "sultan" if they didn't marry him? Memorial ID. [27] In defiance of this age-old custom, Hurrem stayed behind in the harem, even after her sons went to govern the empire's remote provinces. Interviews are constantly being used in Wikipedia for every notable person, why neglect this one? She did not spend her last years in poverty, as her stepson, Bas kadin literally means "Head Woman", and if this "head woman" status didn't exist at that time then why she has been referred as "Ba kadin" or Birinci kadin by numerous books? Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Learn how and when to remove this template message, CrimeanNogai slave raids in Eastern Europe, De moribus tartarorum, lituanorum et moscorum, "2 Reasons Why Hurrem Sultan and Empress Ki were similar", "Ottoman Empire History Encyclopedia - Letter H - Ottoman Turkish history with pictures - Learn Turkish", Constantinople: City of the World's Desire, 14531924, "Hrrem Sultan: A beloved wife or master manipulator? One more thing, though "Kadin" was (according to Peirce) a SLANG term for Hatun (woman) created by Ottomans (respectfully I guess) nonetheless it was used for respected wives of Sultans and Shezades. [44] This tragedy marks the first time the Ottomans were introduced on stage in France. [11] She was to bear the majority of Suleiman's children. This practice was called karde katliam, literally "fraternal massacring". And with all this research you are only proving yourself wrong because NONE OF YOUR SOURCES say that M was a Muslim Convert, rather, they say, Mahidevran, daughter of Abdullah. Moreover, remaining in Istanbul, she moved out of the harem located in the Old Palace (Eski Saray) and permanently moved into the Topkap Palace after a fire destroyed the old harem. Friday Social Amazing volunteers host Christmas dinner. Wikipedia doesn't work like that. One of the alledged theories points to her mother being addressed in that manner. As Mulkhurub Bahar Idarovna blossomed into an eye dazzling beauty, her father saw this as an opportunity to strengthen the political relationship between the Caucasus and Ottoman Dynasty. Scholars have wondered if Hurrem's alliance with Mihrimah Sultan and Rstem Pasha helped secure the throne for one of Hurrem's sons. According to late 16th-century and early 17th-century sources, such as the Polish poet Samuel Twardowski (died 1661), who researched the subject in Turkey, Hurrem was seemingly born to a man surnamed Lisovski, who was an Orthodox priest of Ruthenian origin. There is a possibility of both titles therefore no title should be put in. Brian Walters and Mark Walter, both of Timaru, have started the new year with a kick and a punch, having just completed their Seido From Timaru to Melbourne, to appearing in the hit television showRupauls Drag Race: Down UndertoRentthe musical, Bailey Dunnage is returning to his home town A Guinness World Record would be the icing on Millie Roses (cup)cake.The Timaru cupcake designer drew a crowd outside her Stafford St boutique on Christmas is about many things, including the gift of giving, and that is exactly what the Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand (Bronz) Timaru South Canterbury artist Hamish Cameron has drawn on 30 years of painting and poetry to bringFolioto life. Instead, he attended it. Mustafa had a great sympathy towards his half-brothers, especially to Beyazt and Cihangir (the youngest ones). [16]:130 Suleiman and Hurrem's last child, ehzade Cihangir was born with a hunchback, but by that time Hurrem had borne enough healthy sons to secure the future of the Ottoman dynasty. And for your info, they all married the sultan and were legal wives, and those that weren't married were called hatun. I even request the deletion of dubious page of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here. [46], In 2007, Muslims in Mariupol, a port city in Ukraine opened a mosque to honour Roxelana.[47]. Here are some sources (regardless of their nature) they contradicts the motion that she wasn't called Sultan. This article is literally the ONLY one in wikipedia to call a hatun a sultana. In 1553, Mustafa was very famous in Anatolia. 113.203.156.141 (talk) 23:52, 1 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], First of all, those references you've cited are: 1) popular culture based books 2) recent and based on art and theatrical depictions; as such, these references are unfounded and misinformed when it comes to Ottoman history. Whatever sources we can find, half of them supports the Hatun theory, the other half supports Sultan theory. "She was said to have been the most beautiful girl in the dynasty and out-stood in beauty in a land which was known for it. She wrote many love letters to Suleiman when he was away for campaigns. The information given in this page reveals that despite being called addressed as a sultana she wasn't one, and before that edit came to be the page addressed her as hatun (and many others too [1] ), which is also a title she's been given in other sources. "The Speech of Ibrahim at the Coronation of Maximilian II", Thomas Conley. After the executions, Mahidevran moved to Bursa to build a proper grave for her son and lived there until her death in 1581. [41] Hurrem was also intelligent and had a pleasant personality. Whether this phrase refers to a warm friendship between the Polish King and Ottoman Haseki, or whether it suggests a closer relation, the degree of their intimacy definitely points to a special link between the two states at the time. In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. Enver Ziya ( 1975 ) woman to remain in the Sultan and Rstem Pasha helped the... Ottomans were introduced on stage in France called karde katliam, literally `` fraternal massacring.. The only prince in the times of Suleyman, not everyone could be that... 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